Excerpt from “The Great Debate” on the laws of logic

The following is an excerpt from “The Great Debate: Does God Exist?,” a formal debate between Dr Greg L. Bahnsen (a Christian apologist) and Dr Gordon S. Stein (an atheist) that was held at the University of California (Irvine) on February 11, 1985. This is the last part of Dr Bahnsen’s cross examination of Dr Stein and then they switch over.

You can listen to this segment of the debate here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cSA8ezkmR4&feature=related

I would encourage you to listen to the whole debate which is also available on youtube.

As Dr Bahnsen once said, if you give let the unbeliever talk long enough, he’ll give you the “rope” by which you can “hang” him.

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Bahnsen: I heard you mention “logical binds” and “logical self-contradiction” in your speech .
You did say that?

Stein: I used that phrase, yes.

Bahnsen: Do you believe there are laws of logic then?

Stein: Absolutely.

Bahnsen: Are they universal?

Stein: They are agreed upon by human beings. They aren’t laws that exist out in nature. They’re consenual.

Bahnsen: Are they simply conventions then?

Stein: They are conventions, but they are conventions that are self-verifying.

Bahnsen: Are they sociological laws or laws of thought?

Stein: They are laws of thought which are interpreted by men and promulgated by men.

Bahnsen: Are they material in nature?

Stein: How can a law be material in nature?

Bahnsen: That’s a question I’m going to ask you.

Laughter…

Stein: I would say no.

Moderator: Dr Stein, you now have an opportunity to cross-examine Dr Bahnsen.

Stein: Dr. Bahnsen, would you call God material or immaterial?

Bahnsen: Immaterial.

Stein: What is something that’s immaterial?

Bahnsen: Something not extended in space.

Stein: Can you give me an example of anything other than God that is immaterial?

Bahnsen: The laws of logic.

Much laughter….

Moderator: Can I ask you to hold that down please…

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